Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by shadowray7, Apr 20, 2016.

  1. shadowray7

    shadowray7 Resident Maki Worshipper

    While it's non canon, I still recommend you play the epilogue. Some of the stuff Tenmyouji mentions still applies.

    This is sort of explained in ZTD.... sort of.... Something important does happen to Sigma between the two games.
    Not to mention
    They need Sigma to make the Nonary Game: Ambidex edition. It also has something to do with a detail mentioned in K's ending. Specifically the person Akane told Kyle about.
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2016
  2. Sykikal

    Sykikal Very mentally stable admin Staff Member

    The one that starts with the news broadcast? I think I've seen it.

    I'm guessing by "the person" you mean Dio since he's the one planning to kill Akane.

    Anyway.. seems like we're going in circles. My reasoning here is that presumably, the old Sigma who replaced the memory of our Sigma already went through is own version of the Nonary game, went back in time, created the Nonary game, became old sigma, then went back to take control of "Young Sigma" and start the events of ZTD (and save the world or whatever presuming that's what actually happens). So I don't get why it's necessary for this "newer" Sigma to recreate the games an additional time. Actually, since that old Sigma who took over our mind deemed himself ready to take over young Sigma, it's safe to assume that there was an even earlier Sigma from an alternate Universe who also already became old Sigma, so presumably THAT Sigma already saved the world.

    The whole thing just seems weird to me. Maybe it's something I need to play ZTD in order to get in which case I guess I'll revisit this question then or just play it and see what happens.
  3. shadowray7

    shadowray7 Resident Maki Worshipper

    Nope, there's another one, go look at your flowchart again.

    Dio isn't the one. I'm talking about when K starts telling Sigma about who raised him. He said that Akane told him about another person he's never met before the game even began.

    Well think of like this. If Akane didn't create the Second Nonary Game, how would she survive the First Nonary Game? The same logic applies here. If Sigma didn't create the Nonary Game: Ambidex Edition, how would Sigma and Phi have learned about their time jumping abilities and obtain Bomb Code 1?
  4. Sykikal

    Sykikal Very mentally stable admin Staff Member

    I don't see it. Do I need to meet some condition in order to unlock it?

    I feel like this is mixing together two different theories on how time travel works. One theory is what I'm calling "parallel branching universes", that there are alternate universes that run parallel to each other, and interacting with the events of one doesn't change the other. eg. I could go back in time and destroy the world in another timeline, but my timeline would remain unharmed. In a sense, those other universes are just a recreation of the events of one universe from an earlier time.

    Another is that there's one universe and timeline, and altering events in the past directly impacts that timeline. eg. You could go back in time and save someone, then return to your current time, and that person would still be alive today along with any of their offspring and any other actions they might have taken.

    Presumably, there's an alternate universe where each of the endings in the Nonary game occurred. eg. The one where just Phi escapes is presumably still going on, parallel to the rest of them, or the one where just Clover escapes, or the one where Sigma, Dio and Phi escape. So the implication I'm getting from this game is that it is using this "parallel branching universe", but that they're trying to somehow also imply that what you do in the past in other timelines directly influences the current timeline. That is to say, June saving her past self from a different universe helps to preserve her present self. So which is it, does going back in time impact the present universe or not?

    I don't see how they can maintain an "alternate branching universe" theory while also saying that past actions impact the timeline, because if they do, why would some timelines be altered but not others?
  5. vengvong

    vengvong Limit Breaker

    So everyone there was infected with Radical-6? Or was there some murderer and only Sigma and Phi were infected? I wouldn't be surprised if there was a murderer because it happened with Ace in 999.

    What do I need to pass the lock? I already found out about the Neostigmine in the Clover end, and i was guessing that I just needed that info to unlock the lock, but that's obviously not the case

    If two people infected with Radical-6 talked, would they sound normal to each other?



    My two theories:

    K is actual Sigma
    Robot Sigma is ???
    Zero is K's father


    K is actual Sigma
    Robot Sigma is K's father
    Zero is ???
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2016
  6. vengvong

    vengvong Limit Breaker

    Any of you know/find out what the hidden thing is?
  7. Lavitz

    Lavitz Inactive Staff Member

    Change each letter of the bomb codes to the next letter of the alphabet
  8. Sykikal

    Sykikal Very mentally stable admin Staff Member

    Made some progress in ZTD, I got the Q ending.

    So, Mira is a sociopath apparently. She literally rips people's hearts out. I've had a lot of "wtf" moments with characters from past games such as when I found out Dio was an agent of that weird religious cult, but at least I understood his motives. This is just bizarre. I think I got through all of C team's endings, or all of the ones that I can currently go through anyway. Most of the options are still locked.

    I don't know what to think of this Q kid. Reminds me of K from the previous game. Lost his memory and has a mask. Maybe Zero set him up just like he did with K.

    I also like Zero's character in this game. Ultimately, his reoccurring point seems to be that "Life is simply unfair". A lot of times I see villains who do crazy stuff like this try to justify their actions by saying stuff like "Well, they all have a CHANCE to live if only they win the game, so they're all getting a fair shake here." and my thought process is, "Well, what about all the people who don't have to participate in your game to continue living? What about the person who losses your game because he's too ethical? What about the person who is smart in other areas but just didn't know your one game puzzle?". The "Saw" series and to some extent previous VLR games coming to mind. At least this Zero says flat out that he's unfair and he's okay with that.

    Maybe minor quips, but I don't like how on the PC version they show me controls for the 3DS version. They left in the stuff saying to use X button, Y button, RB button, LB button, etc. Even though those aren't the right buttons on the PC version. Just seems a bit lazy, it's like I'm playing it on an emulator.

    I also find the layout a bit confusing compared to VLR which was very clear and straightforward. It's hard to know exactly how my place relates to the choices the other teams made, but I guess there isn't really a perfect way to align something like this.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2016
  9. Lavitz

    Lavitz Inactive Staff Member

    You sure it's not Xbox controls? Do you have a controller plugged in?

    You can change to the flowchart from VLR too
  10. Sykikal

    Sykikal Very mentally stable admin Staff Member

    Oh, I didn't have a controller plugged in, but I guess it is Xbox controls. I tried plugging one in now and the controls on the screen do seem to match up to what is displayed. I guess they don't have a display for mouse and keyboard controls. I'd prefer to use a mouse/keyboard but I guess using a controller helps since at least I know which button relates to which action.
    You mean the global flowchart? I guess what I meant to say, and this is probably unavoidable given the game situation, that it's a little confusing to see how the charts play into each other or where I stand. Sometimes I've looked at the chart and my position has just been off in the middle of nowhere. In VLR you only played as Sigma so it was obvious where I was and what decisions lead up to my current position.
  11. Lavitz

    Lavitz Inactive Staff Member

    Check in the settings, you might be able to change it.

    Yeah, that. ZTD does feel like it's all out of order, but it's intentional. You'll reach a point where it stops doing that eventually.
  12. Sykikal

    Sykikal Very mentally stable admin Staff Member

    Unfortunately seems like there isn't but I guess I can make due.

    Alright, that's what I figured, good to know though.

    More ZTD midgame spoiler stuff.
    I got an ending where Sigma tries to blow up a door with a bomb to get out, but Zero warns him that if he goes through with it, another team will be killed in the process. Apparently, it's this explosion that leads to the loss of Sigma's arms and eye. Pretty interesting, although I have to wonder why this mentally 67 year old Sigma didn't already know about it. More time travel mind screwing.

    [​IMG] Anyway.. more importantly I seem to be stuck. I went through some matter transporter. The game isn't letting me access anyone else's story.

    Global chart is blacked out too except for two paths.[​IMG]

    I eventually passed a puzzle in a locker room like area. It lead me to an 8 digit code panel, I put in the code and got it wrong 3 times, which caused it to fail. I don't know what this 8 digit code is and don't know how to pick anything else. Should I just lookup what this 8 digit code is online or something? I'm guessing it's something I already encountered earlier in the game or that I already have enough hints to figure out, I just am kinda drawing a blank on what it could be right now.
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2016
  13. Lavitz

    Lavitz Inactive Staff Member

    How could he know about it? It happened while his young mind was in the future, all of the things Old Sigma is experiencing in ZTD are new to him. Young Sigma never experiences those events until he's 67 years old, which is why he's shocked at the end of VLR when he's missing his arms and eye.

    It's in the other path, they gave you a good hint. If you still can't figure it out:
    The painting
  14. Sykikal

    Sykikal Very mentally stable admin Staff Member

    Okay.. got a lot to write out on this one.
    At this point, my general idea is to drop this topic because I feel I've used up too much time on it as is. Though I guess my issue is that we're presuming that prior to deciding to "mind swap" with this younger Sigma, this other Older Sigma already went through the events of ZTD, and got to the path where his limbs were blown off. I'd have thought he'd somehow relay that information to the new Sigma so he doesn't make the same mistake. Tell Akane or program it into his robots or something. If nothing changes then it's just an endless loop.

    As it turns out, I didn't actually have to complete the 8 digit code in order to proceed. I just had to select the right path (shown in image below)[​IMG] It was a grayed out exclamation point. I thought grayed out meant you couldn't travel there, but turns out you can as long as it's not a question mark. Taking this path re-unlocked all the other paths.

    I see what you mean by the painting now that I've gone through some of the other paths. I didn't have the painting/family path unlocked when I asked about this. Here's my current progress. I just entered in the twin's bday.


    After completing the segment where Sigma and Dianna have kids (kinda heartwarming in a way, didn't expect them to actually sit around in the bunker for 10 months) I had the wild theory that maybe Sigma's kid "Delta" is somehow involved in the game (eg. maybe he's Q). So I tried inputting the name "Delta" on the "Who killed Junpei" sequence (answer: He's not here) which implies he is somewhere..

    Here's the really weird one. I tried committing suicide on the segment where Q chooses who to kill earlier by inputting "Q" but it says "Please enter name", so to try out my wild theory, I tried out Delta on the segment where Q chooses who to kill. He shoots the camera, and Mira says "Out of all the people, you choose to kill him".. like wtf. Did they just break the forth wall? Is this supposed to be a representation of the player?

    Also made it through the weird time travel stuff with Junpei/Akane/Carlos and the AB game. I liked that Akane actually went over the different interpretations of time travel, eg. mentioning how some interpretation have only one time span and other theories involve a multiverse. The way she explained it.. it seemed to imply that if one version goes and changes something in the past that past version swap places and changes it back? I'm not totally clear on it. Her explanation kinda went over my head, but I have a feeling understanding that is the key to understanding this whole weird time travel stuff.
  15. Lavitz

    Lavitz Inactive Staff Member

    He has to make the same mistake, that is the ending that leads to VLR. Without it, none of VLR or ZTD even happens. The conversation Diana has over the radio is also the same one you hear in VLR. Sigma even accepts that this had to happen for everything else to be possible, there's no way he would warn Young Sigma not to do it.

    You're close to figuring it out.

    Hahaha. Keep playing.
  16. vengvong

    vengvong Limit Breaker

    I just realized that Phi had red/brown eyebrows, so white isn't her natural hair colour :(

    Now that I think about it, I don't know why I assumed it was
  17. Sykikal

    Sykikal Very mentally stable admin Staff Member

    So, I've gotten one ending from Q and D teams, and both endings from C team.
    I've finally uncovered Zero's hidden identity. From the conversation we had, it sounds like he's Sigma's son, and twins with Phi (unsure if it is the same Phi), that'd make Sigma Phi's daughter if so.. which would be weird since he hit on her in VLR. He's also brother and the leader of this "Free the Soul" movement. They also finally reveal his motive. He's killing 6 billion people to take out a fringe terrorist that starts a nuclear war. This also gave me the key to unlock the "Force Quit" box for team C where Carlos basically tries to rape Akane. He knew that the amnesia drug would be injected afterwards. So I'm guessing he was either trying to gain some sort of information (Junpei's feelings for Akane), but this seems like it's going too far to do it. Or knowing they'd forget or he could just shift timelines, he just wanted to "have his way" with Akane and then pretend it didn't happen in another timeline. He didn't share any of his memories with his other teammates. Anyway, going through this force quit box didn't really seem to unlock anything new or reveal anything significant.

    Anyway, I seem to be stuck again. Here's my current global layout.


    I have a few locked fragments but I'm not sure how to access them. The only part where I have a current locked path is the Force quit box from Q team. Q team also has the most locked fragments. Though generally when there's a "locked path" like this and I have reached the section I needed to where I've gotten the answer (eg. the other two force quit boxes, the door with the twin's birthday) it would show a hint to indicate what the answer is. This doesn't show a hint, so I can only assume I haven't unlocked it yet. I tried the twins birthday just to be safe but that wasn't it.
  18. Lavitz

    Lavitz Inactive Staff Member
  19. Sykikal

    Sykikal Very mentally stable admin Staff Member

    Oh.. yup that was the problem. I don't know if I should feel better because it was a problem you also had so I wasn't missing something "obvious" game wise, or worse because I didn't think to remember/recheck your old posts, but thanks.

    Anyway, I finished the game. ZTD Ending spoiler
    Going with a hidden "Delta" guy was an interesting choice. There was no way the player could guess which one of the participants was actually Zero, because he wasn't one of the 9, he was a hidden participant of Q team. On one hand I feel like it's kinda nice that they went with something so unexpected. On the other hand I feel it's a little contrived. I mean he was there the whole time, and outside of those two outcomes where Q (the Sean/Kid Q, not Delta Q) specifically mentions him, he isn't shown in the cutscenes, isn't mentioned, no attempts to communicate with him are made, and no one suggests killing him to reveal an X-Pass. On top of that, they go through the entire game without referring to Sean by his real name? It seems like a lot of coincidences would have had to line up to make that happen.

    Minor quip for an overall still really good game, but I kinda was disappointed that there was no "Final Puzzle" like there was in VLR/999.

    I am beating a dead horse at this point, because I don't think I'll ever really "get it", but this time loop stuff is well.. throwing me for a loop. If it is necessary for Sigma to go through the "same events" to unlock his shifting abilities, wouldn't going out into the world and not releasing Radical-6 alter the timeline, make it so the VLR game doesn't happen in this timeline, and thus break the chain and make it so Sigma never gets the ability and goes back? Confusing chain of logical I know but it seems like the whole premise of this is that the loop must be continuous in order for it to function properly, eg. Sigma HAS to repeat the 45 years in VLR in order to recreate it exactly and unlock his time travel abilities.

    Also, could there possibly be a forth game? Maybe it hasn't officially been announced yet or it's too soon to say, but it seems like there's still a big question mark when you consider that this "nuclear war" is never prevented. All Zero-II was successful in doing is motivating them to stop it. It doesn't really seem like a "happy ending" exactly.

    Also, one other thing I had a question about. In VLR it seems to imply that Brother aka. Delta aka. Zero-II is still alive and giving orders but that he's just very old, but it takes place 45 years after ZTD, so he'd have to be around 170 years old, wouldn't he? Did his followers just keep his death under wraps and pretend he was still giving out orders? Did he build some AI to fulfill his orders for him? I mean there's lot of possibilities to explain it but I don't think the game specifically addresses it.
  20. Lavitz

    Lavitz Inactive Staff Member

    There were hints, like the extra shadow and the extra gunshot, you might notice them if you watch the cutscenes again with knowledge of Delta being there. There's also the part where Sean does talk to Delta, he refers to him as "old man" but it cuts to Gab to make it look like he's talking to the dog. It's implied that everything we see as the player is either through Delta's eyes or the cameras which he can see in his glasses, it's all from his PoV. They don't communicate with him because he's supposed to be blind and deaf.

    Nobody knows who he is or what his name is, not even himself. That's understandable.

    Yes, but he wouldn't need to anymore since they succeeded. We also don't know what happens, it's possible that old Sigma stays in his younger body and never goes back to the future since there is nobody for him to switch back with if VLR Sigma always goes back to the failed timeline.

    He does. The good end of ZTD exists outside of the loop and old Sigma is the only one who will ever experience those events.

    The 3rd game wasn't supposed to happen because the first two weren't successful enough, so it's unlikely. We're lucky ZTD was even made, but it's possible.

    Who knows, maybe he froze himself or used the transporter.
    Sykikal likes this.

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