Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by shadowray7, Apr 20, 2016.

  1. vengvong

    vengvong Limit Breaker

    Those were rhetorical, I wasn't really asking

    Gonna do the true end tomorrow, hopefully it's satisfying.
  2. vengvong

    vengvong Limit Breaker

    So I finished the true ending, and I thought that was a really nice wrap up to the game. Answered most questions, and had a little twist at the end to keep people wondering until they play the next game.

    I get some of the reasons for the nicknames, but what are the rest?

    Santa's was because he was the "santa" to her sister
    Clover's was because of the 4-leaf clover aka the anti-yandere device
    June's was because of the last day they met/the doll's name

    Do you find the reasons for the names in the other paths? I found Santa's reason for the nickname in a path that lead to the bad end.

    I still don't get the ending though, how is Akane alive, and is she actually Zero? Did she actually get into Junpei's room and knock him out?

    How does frozen chicken break apart dry ice!?

    Was that All-ice at the end..?

    Would the "ship" actually have sunk if it reached past 6AM? I'm guessing the water would be able to rise even more, but wouldn't Zero/Santa be risking their lives then?
  3. shadowray7

    shadowray7 Resident Maki Worshipper

    This was actually explained at the beginning of game. It's based off their numbers.
    1 = Ace for the ace in a deck of cards
    2 = Snake for Snake Eyes
    3 = Santa because "San" is 3 in Japanese
    4 = Clover for 4-Leaf Clover
    6 = June for 6th month of the year
    7 = Seven
    8 = Lotus for a the Lotus Flower, which has 8 petals


    In all seriousness, yes Akane is Zero. This should have been made obvious when it is revealed that the narrator reveals herself to be Zero and eventually actually Akane 9 years in the past during the first nonary game.

    She set up the whole thing so that Junpei can access the field and resonate with her nine years in the past so that she can solve the flaming Sudoku puzzle.

    Blunt Force Trauma

    :cshrug: Go play the next game

    All-Ice is actually never explained in any of the sequels. All it gets is a mention in VLR. :V

    No. The only ones who were ever in any real danger were the 4 Cradle Pharmaceutical employees
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2016
  4. Sykikal

    Sykikal Administrator Staff Member

    999 True ending spoilers
    They sort of discuss this in the ending. Weird time travel shenanigans. Junpie saves June so she's "alive".

    It's a blunt object. Too look too deeply into this.
    Didn't the true ending show that they were actually in the fake ship located in the desert? Not actually in water?
  5. vengvong

    vengvong Limit Breaker

    I thought the nicknames would have more reasoning to it.

    For example, if you take the path 5,7,6 (or the safe end, I don't remember which), Santa says something along the lines of him and his sister being alone because their parents were gone, so he had to be the "santa" for her, providing her presents every Christmas. I don't think it's a coincidence that he called himself her santa, and his nickname happened to be "Santa" as well

    I also think that them naming the doll "June", and her nickname being June isn't a coincidence.

    Clover obviously named herself after the 4-leaf clovers her brother was supposed to give to her. Otherwise she wouldn't have brought up the first Nonary Games or whatever when Junpei does the whole speech on 4-leaf clovers & hope thing.

    There's probably even more in different paths.

    ISN'T SHE DEAD THOUGH (until Junpei actually saves her)

    Yeah, I know that. I was basically asking if they were ever put into actual danger.
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2016
  6. shadowray7

    shadowray7 Resident Maki Worshipper

  7. shadowray7

    shadowray7 Resident Maki Worshipper

    Last edited: Aug 15, 2016
    Lavitz likes this.
  8. Sykikal

    Sykikal Administrator Staff Member

    I'm playing through Virtue's Last Reward. Not too far yet. Partially through the first campaign, I think. It sort of made me restart.
    I got to the Infirmary, where there isn't enough medicine. It asked me if I wanted to save, then restarted the game. I tried going back, it won't let me proceed, strange. Fortunately unlike 999 I can skip to anypart in the timeline. I went back to the AB Game Round 1 where I choose whether to pick "Ally" or "Betray". Last time I picked "Ally" and Alice picked "Betray", so this time I picked betray. Not only did Alice have her vote changed to betray, but the game gave a whole in game thought explanation about how strange it was that the vote changed and mentioned that Sigma was aware that the time travel was going on. This is way different from 999 were only small bits of information got through the different timelines such as the safe code and the knowledge of who Ace really was.

    When Alice yelled at Zero for not explaining the rules, he somewhat sarcastically asked Phi "it's not like others didn't know the rules, right?" even though Phi somehow did know. On top of that, there's the mysterious circumstances for Phi knowing Sigma's name. Maybe Phi or others have this ability to travel through time or communicate with others in different timelines telepathically. Maybe that's what this game is trying to test (similiar to how old game was testing telepathy).
  9. Sykikal

    Sykikal Administrator Staff Member

    I've gotten farther in the game. I've gotten the Dio ending and gotten through every branch on the right and left sides, or at least gotten through them up to the point where the game forced me to stop due to "lack of information".

    So, seems like I have some information.

    Clover and Alice are co-workers. They work in a field where bombs are an "occupational hazard" and they don't want to tell anyone what that field is. So I'm speculating that either it's some confidential government job (undercover cops, CIA, bomb squad, etc.) or they're partners in crime or something along those lines. I'm also wondering if she's the clover from the previous game. She's the only person I recognize.

    On the right path, Quark and Alice get infected with the Radical-6 virus. On the left path, Quark goes missing and Alice is murdered. The only thing I can think of is that Quark is infected with Radical-6 and either goes to those pods first, or offs himself first. As for Alice, I don't know. It's possible she commits suicide due to Radical-6, but there are alot of other suspects.

    Luna keeps getting killed too. She seems like the nicest one in the game (always votes ally) which makes a tad suspicious.

    Tenmyouji seems to only car about getting Quark out. Guessing that he is related to Quark (grandfather like the game implied). It bugs me because he seems to want to get Clark out to the exclusion of everyone else, but w/e. I guess I can understand that.

    wtf at Dio ending (the only complete ending I've gotten so far). So Dio is a genetic clone, and part of some weird Cult lead by a guy called "Brother". He wasn't originally supposed to be part of the game and he invades it because it's part of his mission. I still don't totally understand what this mission is. At least it's the first decent ending I've gotten that actually progresses the game. I also findout we're in some desert.

    Phi seems to be like the only one other than Sigma who can see into other timelines. Her power seems to be stronger than his as she's fully aware of it. Getting the Dio ending comes from following her advice.

    K is still a mystery wrapped in a mystery. Apparently he was raised in some factory as a research experiment or something. Okay, onto center path I suppose.
  10. Lavitz

    Lavitz Inactive

    Clover is the same Clover from 999 and Alice is that girl they seen at the end of 999 in the desert.

    Oh, it gets crazier.
    Fenrir likes this.
  11. vengvong

    vengvong Limit Breaker

    I got VLR, worth it. I'm enjoying the series a ton.


    When Sigma had the "flashback" of the explosion, the location looked nothing like earth. I'm predicting they're actually on the moon, so they're sort of quarantined because of the epidemic that Quark brought up.

    This would explain K, he's wearing a space suit.

    Remember in the beginning, when Phi did that massive leap to the top? Sigma thought she was flying! Remember when K did the massive leap while holding CLOVER? This could only be accomplished with THE HELP OF THE MOON'S LOWER GRAVITY.

    I cracked the case boys, all the evidence is right there.
  12. Lavitz

    Lavitz Inactive

    If they were on the moon, why hasn't anyone commented on the lower gravity yet? Surely they would feel it since the difference is quite obvious compared to being on Earth.
  13. vengvong

    vengvong Limit Breaker

    Yeah they have, I can't quote for certain because I passed that part of the game but a lot of them mentioned feeling different, and feeling like their bodies weren't theirs.

    This would also explain the headaches, they're spacesick/nauseous
  14. Lavitz

    Lavitz Inactive

    The low gravity though ;) Someone would notice it when they moved
  15. Sykikal

    Sykikal Administrator Staff Member

    So, I finished VLR, I think.

    Good ending. I overlooked the stuff that veng picked up on that indicated that we were on the moon. It's funny, Luna the bot was the nicest member of the group. I enjoyed/didn't expect that. Sigma just having cyborg arms also surprised me. I was expecting him to be full robot.

    Also, probably coincidentally the "to be continued" path where Dio kills Sigma by betraying him and taking Quark's medicine as leverage was the first time I saw someone die due to the rules of the game. I was starting to think that maybe like the earlier lie Zero Jr. told us about the elevator about to fall (which was actually the AB room) maybe there was no poison in the bracelets, turns out there was though. They really tied the story together well. It seems like writing this and coming up with all the possible outcomes and having them all make sense would be a big headache.

    Anyway, all that aside.. There are a few things I'm unclear about. For starters, "Brother's" organization. All we know about this guy is that he's an Esper that started a religious cult, and he's really old so presumably alive during the events of the 999 game, but we know nothing about his motives or why he'd want to infect the world with Radical-6, or how he was able to grow a cult following.

    The time loop explanation that June was giving also went over my head. So he has to mentally warp back in time, then wait 45 years, then his mind will be replaced by the younger him's mind that's warping to the future? huh..? I still don't get why Sigma can't just mindwarp to even earlier, before the Radical 6 event happened and stop it that way. It seems overly convoluted. He already has full mindwarp control by now, right?
  16. vengvong

    vengvong Limit Breaker

    I'm reading through some of the secret files

    What is Free the Soul?It says that Ace from the first game is a devoted follower of Free the Soul. Or is just knowing spoilers to later in the game?
  17. Lavitz

    Lavitz Inactive

    You'll find out in Zero Time Dilemma.

    He does do that. He can't break the cycle because the only reason VLR is happening in the first place is because the last Sigma failed to stop it.

    Point A (December 25th, 2028) - Sigma gets kidnapped (Before events of Zero Time Dilemma, before Radical 6 outbreak)
    Point B (January 25th, 2074) - Start of VLR's Nonary Game
    Point C (January 27th, 2074) - End of VLR's Nonary Game
    Point D (April 13th, 2029) - After Radical 6 outbreak
    Point E (December 31st, 2028) - After Mars Mission Test Site (Zero Time Dilemma)

    Young Sigma gets kidnapped, and trades minds with Old Sigma. Young Sigma's mind is now at Point B, the start of the VLR's Nonary Game.

    At the end of VLR, Young Sigma gets sent to Point D so he can begin work on creating everything from VLR for the next 45 years, and Point C Phi gets sent back and will eventually end up at Point A. (explained further down)

    Old Sigma's mind is now at Point A in Young Sigma's body along with Point C Phi, and the two of them participate in the Mars Mission Test Site to stop the outbreak of Radical 6. This is what Zero Time Dilemma is about.

    Basically this is how they jump:

    Old Sigma
    -> Point A -> Zero Time Dilemma -> ???

    Young Sigma
    -> Point B -> Virtue's Last Reward -> Point D -> Ages 45 years -> becomes Old Sigma

    -> Point B -> Virtue's Last Reward -> around Point D -> Sleep for 45 years -> Point A -> Zero Time Dilemma -> ???

    I'm not even quite sure how to explain Phi. Here's what I think happened:

    After the events of Zero Time Dilemma at Point E, Phi volunteers to be frozen. Phi from Point C swaps places with Point E Phi and is frozen for 45 years, when she wakes up, she will swap with Point A Phi. It's unknown what happens to Point E Phi since no game covers that. Point A Phi goes on to become Point C Phi after Virtue's Last Reward, and Point C Phi goes on to become Point E Phi after Zero Time Dilemma.
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2016
  18. Sykikal

    Sykikal Administrator Staff Member

    Appreciate your help but I still don't think I'm getting it...
    This part kind of confuses me. They "trade" consciousness/minds? As if there are two worlds going on simultaneously? I sort of thought he was time traveling and the other timeline was "wiped out" and replaced with the events of the new timeline, but retained his memories of the old unfulfilled timelines.

    So everytime you do a time jump there's another Sigma you suddenly traded places with who has no idea why he's in that time/area?

    And didn't someone have to "start" the chain? How'd old sigma get the ability to travel back in time before young sigma went through the events of VLR?

    VLR was already created in this timeline. Sigma (I guess at this point it's young sigma's consciousness in old Sigma's body) already has mind time travel which was the point of the game. Why should he bother going back and spending 45 years recreating? Why doesn't young sigma skip point "D", go directly to point "A", and start ZTD himself?
  19. Lavitz

    Lavitz Inactive

    The way Akane explained it, they get "forced out" and enter the body of their future selves when another version of themselves enter their body in the past. It is time travel, but if they were being wiped out, then how could Sigma go back to his original timeline?

    You mean like what happened at the beginning of the game? ;)

    It's a causal loop.

    The whole point of it is to get old Sigma to point A. Akane says this.
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2016
  20. Sykikal

    Sykikal Administrator Staff Member

    Well, there are many different interpretations of time travel and I guess that's just how this game decided to make it work. There are completely different ones such as in DBZ where there are different timelines that exist separately, and changing the events in one timeline don't influence the other. eg. Even though Cell was killed in main DBZ timeline Trunks had to go back and kill him again in his own timeline.

    I guess the closest analogy to what I originally had in mind for time traveling was reloading a save state/file on a video game, but with the player being a representation of the protagonist. I, the player, now have all the knowledge of future events while replaying the levels, which might give me the edge. Throughout the entire game my consciousnesses/knowledge the only thing that continues growing/evolving, and everything else in the game world is reset. eg. By starting a new game on Pokemon Yellow I don't "switch places" with the me as a child, I simply continue gaining knowledge while all the other characters in the game revert back to their previous knowledge of me before I became a champion, or I can have multiple games/save files, but there's only one of my own consciousnesses and it retains knowledge of all my previous savefiles/games.

    Another example I can think of is that ERASED anime. He went into the past and changed events, and in doing so changed history and "removed" those other timelines from existence where he didn't change history, but despite his own consciousnesses changing timelines, he retained his knowledge of all the previous timelines he was apart of, it was everyone else that changed around him.

    I suppose there's no "wrong" interpretation on how time travel could work, just that it's different from time travel scifi and theories I've seen in the past so it wasn't my immediate expectation on how it'd work so I'm having a bit more trouble wrapping my head around it.

    If I'm understanding this correctly, at the start of the VLR games, old sigma has already forced out young sigma, which means he's already doing his thing and saving the alternate universe. Doesn't that mean that one specific universe that young sigma inhabited is already being saved by that old sigma who's reached "Point A"? Why bother continuing the Nonary game and redoing the process? Why is sending old sigma more important than sending young sigma? I thought it might be because he gained some new knowledge, but Phi isn't gaining any new knowledge, she's just sleeping on ice, seems like at least she could go immediately to point A without even bothering with the ice stuff. I don't know, I guess I'm overthinking it but this whole extra step just seems unnecessarily convoluted to me.

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