Logic, use it. HE SAID BUT (I didn't lose you already did I?) He's stating that as an IF it happened, which doesn't make sense because it's already happening and it's been happening since the start of gaming almost and there is still high demand for it so tell me what part you don't get? What needs to be justified exactly? ---------- Post added at 01:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:03 PM ---------- Well you were wrong. Not everyone has a bunch of free time. I'm only going to bet busier in the coming months too, school, work and a huge trip are coming up Sorry but unless they've changed their policy I've never gotten much for my games personally and I was being generous with $10 because that's about how much I would get back in store credit if I bought a new game and then turned right back around and turned it in. I did that once, brought the game back the next day for around $9-$10 however I assume because maybe that game was new and in high demand. You're not going to sell your game for much if the disc is not in perfect condition, there is only so much those cleaning solutions can do, even the professionally done ones. You say that because it's a physical disc it has value because you can transfer the license well that's true, the game is still very fragile and not worth squat if damaged. I remember on my 360 I had to buy 3 copies of L4D, no I was not careless with my games, I had a shelf to put them on, all the original cases and manuals etc but I have siblings who get into stuff the moment I turn my back and **** happens, you can't prevent that however one of those times my console was barely bumped and the disc ended up with that laser ring scratch, game still worked but the textures in the game were all ****ed. No one is going to take a look at that and want anymore than $0.25 I was not going to say something like "oh probably about half of pirates will buy the game" because I know that's not true, I assume (yes assume) that with the millions of pirates out there that at the least 25% will buy the game because pirating is not just about getting the game for free. Take about 3 pirates and ask them why they pirate, they'd probably say: Because I have no money = they may buy it legit when they do but I'm also assuming on this one that most won't but a lot still do. Because I want to demo the game first before spending $30+ on a game I might not like OR a lot of people are oblivious on PC specs so they might want to see if the game will even run on their PC = This is the number 1 reason people would pirate but then turn around and buy the game if they liked it and it ran on their system I personally did that with Minecraft as I said, there really was no demo at the time so I pirated it and I was glad I did, I was not able to run the game on my laptop. As soon as I got a new PC I bought 2 copies of the game. Notch even said he doesn't mind piracy and also claimed that people who pirated though were never going to buy the game in the first place so no sales were actually lost, it's not like walking into a store and stealing physical copes, those would not be lost in black market circulation. Minecraft Creator Notch Tells Players to Pirate His Game - Forbes Notch on piracy: "if a pirated game is a lost sale, should bad reviews be illegal?" | PC Gamer How piracy works. : The Word of Notch As he is an indie dev himself (who actually has a popular game) who knows how the industry is and how it may affect him I'm more inclined to think he knows what he's talking about just a lil bit. And the last reason, the game may not be available in their country = they'd buy it if possible but since it's not the only way to enjoy that game like millions of other gamers have, they have to pirate it. The game may even be banned there so it would be worse. Oh they very well could tell their friends and probably do but I'm highly skeptical that their friends will rush out and buy a brand new game when they find out their friend just got a way cheaper used game from Gamestop. I doubt "supporting the dev" is at the top of their mind when they want that game. Most gamers don't even know that devs/publishers don't profit from used game sales and a lot probably don't even care but will call piracy bad because it's what they've been told it is while used games are encouraged. You say Really? How do you figure that? More people pirate games than buy used. Lets say this, once per every 10 gamers a new game is bought, while once per every thousand pirates buy a game It would be 10/1000 But if there is, say 100,000 pirates on PC and 10,000 on console then it would still be 1:1 100 copies will have been sold regardless. More people pirated the game and never paid anything back? Odds are they still told their friends about the game (and there being more pirates will have told more) sure console gamers could tell their friends too but it's highly more likely that their friends will just hop on out to their local gamestop and buy a used copy too. PC gamers could pirate too but with all the "torrent = virus" hype we got Steam and other game distributors have grown to be a more viable option. True, I was saying that but read it in a different article, here. Lionhead: Pre-owned worse than PC piracy Lets take this apart for a minute. Not really, people have always been complaining about the price of games since back in the day and it hasn't stopped. People ALWAYS want to pay less which is why the used game industry is here. You won't get $35 back on a new game, I can just about guarantee it. Not to mention it also has to do with supply and demand there. If CoD Ghosts just came out and they only had one used copy but 5 copies of AC 4 they're not going to pay as much for another used copy of AC4 compared to CoD Ghosts. That logic, I had to reread it a couple times. True buying a used game reduces the amount in circulation but riddle me this. When I walk into a game store and want to buy a used game, say the new pokemon game and they have a few copies left, now either I'm very, very lucky to get there just in time to get one before they're all gone OR people are constantly going in there and trading in their used game because of the demand and higher trade in value which doesn't help the devs at all. If it's the first option than a lot of people must not be trading games in and Gamestop would be having a terrible time getting business and we know that's not the case. Probably but the option to pirate has been around since almost the start of games, at this point I really don't think it has any significant impact since we'll never have seen it without the option of piracy. I mean the demand is obviously high enough that Nintendo, Sony and MS (though I have yet to see and retro games on XBL) would have taken the effort to make them available. If they didn't it would have given people MORE of a reason to download ROMS they just couldn't get ahold of anymore and therein would be the loophole. We wouldn't have to wait till a company dies for games to not be available anymore if they decided to not make them available on the retro console. Even so are you telling me that EVERY retro game Nintendo has made are on the virtual console?