Shin Megami Tensei and Persona Thread

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by shadowray7, Oct 5, 2015.

  1. shadowray7

    shadowray7 Resident Maki Worshipper

  2. Sykikal

    Sykikal Very mentally stable admin Staff Member

    Since most of us here have Persona 5 I thought it was worth making a thread about.

    I'm currently on the fifth palace. Made good progress on most of the confidants. I've got 5 knowledge and charm and four on the other stats. I'll try to recall progress I had for earlier palaces since I feel it's worth mentioning but didn't have a thread up for them at the time.

    Got 10 for Toranosuke Yoshida (politics guy), Makoto Niijima, Sadayo Kawakami, Caroline/Justine (got this later but felt it wasn't really spoilerish to mention at this point in the story) and am pretty high on the others.

    I wish I had upgraded Sadayo earlier (I guess this is also advice to people earlier in the game). Her abilities are really helpful for saving time and give me the freetime to upgrade other confidant's and stats etc. I'm surprised by how much sessions it takes to rank up Sojiro in order to get what seem to be relatively mediocre rewards. Also, wish I had used my time more efficiently early on. I spent more days than necessary in the first palace and I used up too much time studying/in the coffee shop when I feel like I should have been doing confidants since they seem more important than stat upgrades. I also missed a lot of the Sunday drinks/plant fertilizing early on which are stat upgrades that only take up money and no time (time seems to be much more valuable in this game).

    Awesome story and gameplay, overall a lot better than I was expecting. It seems like the phantom thieves are WAY too obvious about their meetings though. Talking about their exploits in public, over text messages, etc. No wonder Joker gets caught later.

    My main two Persona at this point both repel physical and gun damage, which is super helpful. Only element I'm missing on them is bless. I have other personas to use bless so I suppose it's not a huge deal though.

    Interesting change of pace/ending that we're changing someone's heart to help them instead of making them confess their crimes. Thought it was funny that Medjeb was built up so much just for Futaba to take them out in a single day. Makes me wonder if they were really going to take down the Japanese economy or had the power to do something like that in the first place.

    I wasn't a fan of the Mona sidestory. Ryuji is inconsiderate and probably shouldn't have said Mona wasn't helpful, but Mona also overacted. I don't really like Haru Okumura all that much. I don't dislike her either, just nothing about her stands out to me as an interesting character. I never use her in battle and still haven't gotten around to unlocking her as a confidant. It seems like the only reason she's in the phantom thieves is because she's the daughter of bad guy from the palace 5 section and because Mona went rogue.

    Another note, it sort of bugged me how quickly support for phantom thieves dropped after they killed burger CEO guy. Half of the comments on the site implied they wanted him dead anyway. Would it really alienate that many people if he died instead of confessing? Another sort of related note, I got a memetos to go after this hobo-assassin. He says he only kills bad people though. When phantom thieves confront him, he says it's hypocritical because we're basically outlaws too. He kind of has a point. Is changing people's hearts really all that worse than killing them? You're essentially killing off "who they were" by mind controlling them/forcing them to confess. Presumably, the people who confess sullenly live out in a jail cell for the rest of their life. It's not THAT much better than executing them. Ann even alluded to this during the first palace and explained its why she didn't want to kill Olympic guy's shadow. Then again, not saying I trust a hobo to decide who to let live or die either

    So the big baddie is Goro, the media person. Does it strike anyone else as too predictable? Prior to Goro joining I thought maybe it'd be Mona but he gave off a douchy vibe for a while. In addition to that, I noticed that he did not have any confident abilities past rank 6, which is a major red flag that he was leaving the party so there was no point in including them past rank 6. Though I guess it's not entirely a bad thing. It'd seem out of character at this point for any of the other main party characters to do it, except maybe Mona if you take into account these weird evil dreams.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2017
  3. shadowray7

    shadowray7 Resident Maki Worshipper

  4. Sykikal

    Sykikal Very mentally stable admin Staff Member

    Last edited: Apr 14, 2017
  5. shadowray7

    shadowray7 Resident Maki Worshipper

    Wait, so Akechi has the wild card? What?
     
  6. Unknown Entity

    Unknown Entity Junior Gamer

    7th palace ..."spoiler":
    "You'll never see it coming (Unless you've played an RPG or are even a little familiar with Death Note)" Look up the term: "expy."
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2017
  7. Sykikal

    Sykikal Very mentally stable admin Staff Member

    I found this list from a GameFAQs user named Zeruel. Seems to be accurate. Super useful trick to fuse the persona you need.

    List of Persona to help

    https://chinhodado.github.io/persona5_calculator/#/list

    Basically, anything that can be obtained through normal fusion can be easily obtained from gems provided you have the right gem and a persona in that arcana. Normally, you have to average out their levels in order to fuse a persona, eg. if you want a level 20 persona, you'd have to fuse one with a base level of 10 with a base level of 30 (also some other chart that explains which arcana demon you'd get but I don't want to go into that)

    Reveals list of gem/rare demons. Minor spoilers
    Regent
    +2: Emperor, Hermit
    +1: Magician, Hierophant, Chariot, Justice, Fortune, Hanged Man, Death, Star, Sun
    -1: Fool, Priestess, Empress, Lovers, Strength, Temperance, Tower, Moon, Judgment
    -2: Devil

    Queen's Necklace
    +2: Empress, Moon
    +1: Fool, Priestess, Lovers, Strength, Hanged Man, Temperance, Devil
    -1: Magician, Emperor, Hierophant, Chariot, Justice, Hermit, Fortune, Death, Star, Sun, Judgment
    -2: Tower

    Stone of Scone
    +2: Magician, Fortune
    +1: Emperor, Hierophant, Chariot, Death, Tower, Star, Moon, Judgment
    -1: Fool, Priestess, Empress, Lovers, Justice, Hermit, Hanged Man, Temperance, Devil, Sun
    -2: Strength

    Koh-i-Noor
    +2: Priestess, Justice
    +1: Fool, Empress, Lovers, Hermit, Strength, Death, Devil, Tower, Sun
    -1: Magician, Emperor, Chariot, Fortune, Hanged Man, Temperance, Star, Moon, Judgment
    -2: Hierophant

    Orlov
    +1: Magician, Priestess, Empress, Hierophant, Chariot, Justice, Hermit, Strength, Hanged Man, Temperance, Devil, Tower, Star, Moon, Sun, Judgment
    -1: Fool, Emperor, Lovers, Death
    -2: Fortune

    Emperor's Talisman
    +2: Hanged Man, Devil
    +1: Magician, Empress, Emperor, Justice, Hermit, Strength, Temperance, Tower, Judgment
    -1: Fool, Priestess, Hierophant, Lovers, Fortune, Death, Star, Moon, Sun
    -2: Chariot

    Hope Diamond
    +2: Death, Sun
    +1: Fool, Magician, Priestess, Emperor, Hermit, Fortune, Star
    -1: Empress, Hierophant, Chariot, Justice, Strength, Hanged Man, Temperance, Devil, Tower, Moon, Judgment
    -2: Lovers

    Crystal Skull
    +2: Fool, Temperance
    +1: Magician, Priestess, Empress, Lovers, Justice, Death, Star, Sun
    -1: Emperor, Hierophant, Chariot, Fortune, Strength, Hanged Man, Devil, Tower, Moon, Judgment
    -2: Hermit

    Here's a list of fool persona in order of level. If you had High Pixie and wanted to get Izanagi (up 1 rank), you'd fuse High Pixie with Queen's Necklace. If wanted Izanagi Picaro you'd simply resummon Queen's necklace and fuse again OR use Crystal Skull to skip Izanagi and go straight to Izanagi Picaro. Similarly, the -1 let you go down the chain.
    Level Name
    1 Arsene
    8 Obariyon
    16 High Pixie
    20 Izanagi
    23 Izanagi Picaro
    26 Orpheus
    29 Orpheus Picaro
     
  8. Sykikal

    Sykikal Very mentally stable admin Staff Member

    I made a list of Persona sorted in order of most immunities. It seems like there's a lot you can do to change moves/stats so typing is the most important factor for battling. Gems excluded because they're unusable in battle.

    LevelNameArcanaPhysicalGunFireIceElectricWindPsychicNuclearBlessCurseNullAbsorbRepelImmuneResistWeakness
    82ShivaJudgement---nurp-abwknunu311501
    67Black FrostFool--rpab---nu-rp112400
    82OdinEmperor----nuab--rprp112400
    48RangdaMagicianrprpnu-wk---wknu202402
    59TrumpeterJudgement---abrp---rpnu112400
    60MolochHanged Man--rpwkrsrsab--nu111321
    62ChernobogDeath-rswkabnu---wkrp111312
    44GirimehkalaMoonrprprs-----wknu102311
    73MaraTower-nuabwk----rsrp111311
    79YoshitsuneTowernu-rs-rp---rp-102310
    74AbaddonJudgementabab----wkwk-ab030302
    76KohryuHierophant----rp-wknunu-201301
    89MetatronJustice----wkrpabab-wk021302
    78RaphaelLovers---ab--nu-nu-210300
    21Shiki-OujiChariotnunu-----wk-nu300301
    81UrielJustice--nu----abrp-111300
    83VishnuFool--wkab----nunu210301
    39White RiderChariot--nuwk----nurp201301
    80Zaou-GongenStrength--rp-wk---nunu201301
    95SatanaelFoolrsrsrsrsrsrsrsrsnuab110280
    10RegentEmperorrsrsrsrsrsrswkwknunu200262
    75SandalphonMoonrsrs--rs---rpnu101230
    35ArahabakiHermitrprp----wkwkrsrs002222
    67Cu ChulainnStarrsrs--wkrp--nu-101221
    75Ongyo-KiHermitrsrs------rprp002220
    84ArdhaTemperancers--nunu-----200210
    68DominionJustice-wk-----rpnurs101211
    16KaguyaMoon--wk--rs--nunu200211
    77KaliEmpress--nu---rp--rs101210
    85MadaTower--abwk--rsnu--110211
    44Magatsu-IzanagiTower-rs-----wknunu200211
    48Magatsu-Izanagi PicaroTower-rs-----wknunu200211
    60MelchizedekJustice-----wkrs-abnu110211
    87MichaelJudgement-rs------rpnu101210
    39MithrasSunrs-ab---wknu--110211
    72MotDeath-rs--abwk---rp011211
    92SatanJudgement-rs-rp-----rp002210
    51SethTower--rp--nu--wkrs101211
    71ThroneJustice--ab----rsnuwk110211
    39UnicornHierophant---nu--rs-nuwk200211
    37AnubisJudgement--------nunu200200
    76Asura-OuSun--nu---wkrp--101201
    82AttisHanged Man--nu--rp---wk101201
    84BeelzebubDevil--ab-----wkrp011201
    63ForneusHierophant---abwk-nu---110201
    46FortunaFortune--nu-wknu----200201
    77GabrielTemperance------nu-ab-110200
    49HorusSun--wk-nu---rp-101201
    14InugamiHanged Man--nu--wk---nu200201
    26IsisPriestess------wk-nunu200201
    23Izanagi PicaroFool----nuwk---nu200201
    25Kaguya PicaroMoon--wk-----nunu200201
    36KaiwanStar-nu----nuwk--200201
    61King FrostEmperor---ab----nu-110200
    60LilithMoon--wkrp-----nu101201
    33MithraTemperance---nuwk---nu-200201
    80Mother HarlotEmpress----rp---wknu101201
    44OkuninushiEmperor----rpwknuwk--101202
    45ScathachPriestess---rp-----nu101200
    55SkadiPriestess---rp-----nu101200
    80SraoshaStar----ab---rpwk011201
    36ThothEmperor------wknunu-200201
    68VasukiHanged Man---nunu----wk200201
    81MessiahJudgement--rsrsrsrsrsrsrpwk001161
    90Messiah PicaroJudgement--rsrsrsrsrsrsrpwk001161
    38LegionFoolrsrsrs---rs-wknu100141
    75BaalEmperor--rs--ab--rsrs010130
    37BelphegorTower--wkrsrs--rs-rp001131
    29Black OozeMoonrsrs-rswk-wk-wknu100133
    13Ippon-DataraHermit--rswk-rp--rsrs001131
    30Neko ShogunStarrs---rswk--nurs100131
    64ThorChariotrs---ab-wk-rsrs010131
    79AliceDeath------rsrswkrp001121
    30AriadneFortune-rs----wknurs-100121
    42Ariadne PicaroFortune-rs----wknurs-100121
    56AsteriusFortune--rswk--rs--nu100121
    62Asterius PicaroFortune--rswk--rs--nu100121
    52BarongEmperor-rs--rswk--nuwk100122
    67BishamontenHierophant--abwk----rsrs010121
    59Black RiderTower--wkab----rsrs010121
    86Chi YouChariotrsrs----nuwk--100121
    32DecarabiaFoolwk-rp----rs-rs001121
    61DionysusFool----rp---rsrs001120
    25FlaurosDevil--nuwk-rs-rs--100121
    56Kurama TenguHermit---wk-rp--rsrs001121
    26LamiaEmpress-rs-wkrs----nu100121
    15MakamiTemperance----wkrs-rsnu-100121
    50NarcissusLovers--wk-nurs--rs-100121
    56ParvatiLovers---rp--rs-rswk001121
    16ShiisaaChariotrsrs------nuwk100121
    50TsukiyomiMoonrs------wkrsrp001121
    55Tsukiyomi PicaroMoonrs------wkrsrp001121
    12AngelJustice----rs---nuwk100111
    25AnzuHierophant-wk--rsrp-wk--001112
    58BaphometDevil--rs-----wknu100111
    9BerithHierophant-nurswk------100111
    49BugsFool------rswk-nu100111
    49ByakkoTemperance--wkab---wk-rs010112
    55CerberusChariot--abwk---rs--010111
    73CybelePriestess--rs-wk---nu-100111
    42DaisoujouHierophant-rs------nuwk100111
    22Feng HuangHierophant---rswknu----100111
    53GaneshaSunrs----abwk---010111
    52GarudaStar-wk---rs--rp-001111
    7GenbuTemperance---nuwk-rs---100111
    42HecatoncheirHanged Man-rs------wknu100111
    39Hell BikerDeath--rp--rs--wk-001111
    20IzanagiFool----rswk---nu100111
    40Kikuri-HimePriestess--wk--nu--rs-100111
    42KumbhandaHermit--nuwk-----rs100111
    34LachesisFortune---nuwkrs----100111
    32LilimDevil-wk-rs-wk--wknu100113
    33MothmanMoon-wk--nu-rs---100111
    62NebirosDevil------rs-wkrp001111
    52NornFortune---rs-ab----010110
    20NueMoon--wkrs-----nu100111
    66OberonEmperor----rs-nuwk--100111
    12OnmorakiMoon-wkrs-----wknu100112
    21OrthrusHanged Man--abwk---rs--010111
    42OseFool--rs-----wknu100111
    53Pale RiderDeath-----rs--wkrp001111
    43PazuzuDevil-----rs--wknu100111
    29PisacaDeath--wk-rs---wknu100112
    41PowerJustice-wk---rs--nuwk100112
    29PrincipalityJustice--rs-----nuwk100111
    43Queen MabMagician--nu-rswk----100111
    63QuetzalcoatlSun--nu--rswk---100111
    50SarasvatiPriestess---nurs--wk--100111
    69SiegfriedStrengthnu--rs---wk--100111
    7SuccubusMoon-wkrs-----wknu100112
    24Sui-KiMoon---abrs--wk--010111
    19SuzakuSun--abwk---rs--010111
    29Take-MinakataHanged Man----rp-wk--rs001111
    65ThanatosDeathrs-------wkrp001111
    69Thanatos PicaroDeathrs-------wkrp001111
    44ValkyrieStrength-rs------nu-100110
    64Yamata no OrochiJudgement---nu---wk-rs100111
    57YatagarasuSun-----rs--nuwk100111
    42YurlungurSun----nu-wk-rs-100111
    29Ame no UzumeLovers--ab---wk---010101
    43AnantaStar---abwk-----010101
    16ArchangelJustice----wk---nuwk100102
    39AtroposFortune--wk--nu----100101
    68BelialDevil---------nu100100
    28ChoronzonMagician--ab-----wk-010101
    26ClothoFortune---wk-nu-wk--100102
    23Fuu-KiStar----wkab----010101
    9Hua PoHanged Man-wkrpwk------001102
    85IshtarLovers----nuwk----100101
    11Jack FrostMagician--wknu------100101
    2Jack O'LanternMagician-wkabwk-wk----010103
    32JatayuTower-----abwk---010101
    42Kushinada-HimeLovers-------wkrp-001101
    19MatadorDeath----wknu----100101
    24NagaHermit----nuwk----100101
    55Raja NagaTemperance----nu-----100100
    41Red RiderTower--------wknu100101
    17SudamaHermit---wk-rp-wk--001102
    59SurtMagician--abwk------010101
    9KoropokkuruHermit-rswkrs-rs----000031
    24RakshasaStrengthrs-rs--wk--wkrs000032
    56TitaniaEmpress------wkrsrsrs000031
    3AgathionChariot-rs--rswk----000021
    16EligorEmperor-rsrs-wk-----000021
    64HanumanStar---wk--rs-rs-000021
    40HaritiEmpress-----wkrs-rs-000021
    16High PixieFool-wk--rsrs-wk--000022
    25JikokutenTemperancers-------rswk000021
    25Kin-KiChariotrsrs----wk---000021
    49KoumokutenHermitrs--wk----rs-000021
    69LakshmiFortune--wkrs----rs-000021
    19Leanan SidheLovers--wk--rsrs---000021
    20Nigi MitamaTemperance----wk---rsrs000021
    19OniStrengthrsrs--------000020
    17OrobasHierophant-----rs--wkrs000021
    2PixieLovers-wk-wkrs---rswk000023
    10AndrasDevil-wkwkrs------000012
    11ApsarasPriestess---rswk-----000011
    31Ara MitamaChariotrs--wk------000011
    1ArseneFool---wk----wkrs000012
    4BicornHermit----wk----rs000011
    50DakiniEmpress--rs-------000010
    76FutsunushiMagicianrs------wk--000011
    5IncubusDevil-wk--rs---wk-000012
    6KelpieStrength---rswk-----000011
    11KodamaStar--wkrs------000011
    11Koppa TenguTemperance---wk-rs--wk-000012
    14Kusi MitamaStrength--wk--rs----000011
    3MandrakeDeath--wk-rs-----000011
    9MokoiDeath----rswk----000011
    17NekomataMagician----wk-rs---000011
    8ObariyonFoolrs---wk-----000011
    26OrpheusFool----wk---rswk000012
    29Orpheus PicaroFool----wk---rswk000012
    6Saki MitamaLovers---rswk-----000011
    24SandmanMagician----wkrs----000011
    62SeiryuTemperance---rs---wk--000011
    28SetantaEmperor------wkrs--000011
    6SilkyPriestess--wkrswk-----000012
    10SlimeChariotrs-wk--wk----000012
    20YaksiniEmpress---rs---wk--000011
    31ZouchoutenStrengthrs----wk----000011
    93LuciferStar--------wk-000001
     
  9. shadowray7

    shadowray7 Resident Maki Worshipper

    So after I beat the game, I did some snooping around for Persona skillsets in Persona 5 and apparently there's 3 skills that are exclusive to Public Executions:
    Mage's Gift - 25% Boost to all damage dealing magic
    Almighty Boost - 25% Boost to almighty attacks (Alternatively available from the Messiah DLC)
    Almighty Amp - 50% Boost to almighty attacks

    These can all stack by the way

    So have fun reloading :cshrug:

    Noneofthisnecessaryatalltobeatthegameonanydifficulty
     
  10. Sykikal

    Sykikal Very mentally stable admin Staff Member

    Oh, no wonder I hadn't seen them yet. Hopefully, you can transfer them with gallows/fusion.

    I was thinking something along the lines of Shiva with reflect for physical, gun, fire, wind, and nuke, which would basically make it immune to everything except Almighty. That leaves three skills. Might go with Megidolaon, Almighty Amp, and Debilitate. Of course, still vulnerable to almighty which seems to be pretty common among later bosses. I'm tempted to replace one of the less common type reflects (eg. wind, gun) with Spell Master because if I'm only using Megidolaon I'd go through MP pretty quickly. Like you said, not necessary to finish the game though.
     
  11. Sykikal

    Sykikal Very mentally stable admin Staff Member

    Thoughts/rant on the traitor

    I don't know what to make of Goro. So he was against Shido the entire time, and he waits around until after he gets elected to make his move? Note that this is after Shido tells Goro to kill all the people who knew about his "hit for hire" business. He had to know that Shido was at least considering offing him too if he's that cautious. He could have killed Shido immediately after getting super powers and instead uses them to help him, knowing what Shido is capable of? wtf? I guess it's to improve his image or something by creating causes himself then solving them but he didn't really need Shido for that, did he?

    Not to mention, after the sixth palace, he could have ratted out the entire phantom thieves, not just Joker, but decided not to. His real enemy was Shido. If his goal was to just prevent the phantom thieves from interfering with his work/knowing about the metaverse, it'd have made sense to go after all of them. If his goal is to get Shido, he should have just gone after Shido first. Just getting Joker doesn't make all that much sense.

    On top of that, he's a detective and he doesn't find Futaba messing around with his phone suspicious? At least he's consistently oblivious, I guess? Maybe you could argue it's a character trait like it is with Ann but I think he's supposed to be smart.

    On the Phantom Thieves part, wasn't this entire "pretend to be captured" plan extremely risky? What if the other Phantom thieves got caught? What if Joker got killed in the struggle? What if the towers didn't have good enough cell phone signal access? What if Goro leaked all their identities? What if the cops found out Joker's identity and went after him in his home just to ensure he's actually dead? Lucky for them it worked but IMO they should have just killed Goro on the spot.

    I was a little disappointed with Goro being the traitor. If they didn't telegraph that there would be a traitor from the start it'd be different. We wouldn't be expecting someone to betray us, but given the way they built up the story just getting betrayed wasn't shocking, since they already told us that, so the whole shock value was in WHO was doing the betraying, and Goro seemed like the most obvious person to do it on the list.
     
  12. Sykikal

    Sykikal Very mentally stable admin Staff Member

    I've gotten back into Persona 4 Golden. So far, I liked 5 much more. There are redeeming factors, I like the story and characters in Persona 4 more. They seem more relatable to me. Though for most other aspects of gameplay I prefer 5.

    It seems like every major boss fight so far (eg. the shadow characters) have involved a good deal of grinding in order for me to get to a level that was viable to face them. I thought maybe I was over grinding at first and there was an easier way to handle them but when I search online through guides and message board posts it seems like I'm getting up to the level they suggest after grinding. Fortunately, I've run into several of the wealth hands which makes grinding easier. I really miss the negotiation part, that was one of the best aspects of Persona 5 and SMT IV.

    The dungeons feel repetitive to navigate. All I'm doing is going up floor after floor. You can't just skip between levels or areas once you get to them. If you have a Goho-M You can go to the most recently visited or bottom but I want to grind on mid levels. In order to do that, I have to either treck back down from the top or treck back up from the bottom and once I'm there I have to either use a Goro-M which resets my "resume point" or manually walk back down to the bottom.

    Also, if you run out of Goro-M on a high level and you're not ready to proceed to the boss you're in trouble. There's no save point or rest system like in Persona 5. At least they give you a better supply of magic increasing items throughout the dungeon though.

    I also miss the icon that tells you where confidants(social links in this game) are. Eventually, with memorization, I can get a general idea of where they are but I don't always know what days they're available so I have to go through each area and manually check. Plus, as far as I can tell the party ones are the only ones that give you abilities.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2017
  13. shadowray7

    shadowray7 Resident Maki Worshipper

    [​IMG]
     
    Lavitz likes this.
  14. Sykikal

    Sykikal Very mentally stable admin Staff Member

    I'm using what I got. I don't have access to a huge amount of buffs at the moment and they're all just for one character so it's not always efficient to use. I mostly use MC's attack to lower enemy's defense. I don't think any amount of buffs is going to compensate for having around 70% of the levels I'm supposed to.
     
  15. shadowray7

    shadowray7 Resident Maki Worshipper

     
    Fenrir likes this.
  16. Sykikal

    Sykikal Very mentally stable admin Staff Member

    Persona 5 anime

     
  17. shadowray7

    shadowray7 Resident Maki Worshipper

  18. Sykikal

    Sykikal Very mentally stable admin Staff Member

  19. shadowray7

    shadowray7 Resident Maki Worshipper

    [​IMG]

    Now we just need Dante
     

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