I think the "F" word should be unbanned.

Discussion in 'Questions Assistance & Feedback' started by CROWley, Apr 26, 2014.

?

Shou;d the "F" word be unbanned?

  1. Yes.

    63.6%
  2. No.

    36.4%
  1. CROWley

    CROWley Inactive

    Here's my argument for it.


    Sykikal in the chat
    "One of the thing I don't like about it is how versatile it is. It can be confusing. It can be vague. I'd rather a specific word be used."

    Should anybody get confused they need only inquire what the poster means. I feel that "It could be confusing" is a weak argument and you only say that for your personal disliking of the word.

    Vote only if you're going to post a reason below and join the discussion.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2015
  2. Shadow

    Shadow ಠ_ಠ

    I'm not sure how the word can be confusing unless it's out of context or punctuation isn't used right, regardless it'd still likely make sense. I mean that's not much of an argument to censor it
     
    CROWley likes this.
  3. WasNotWhyNot

    WasNotWhyNot idiot visionary

    is it possible for the filter to be disabled on a personal basis? my favorite aspect of vgi is the civility and the muck word isn't a contributer to that, it's quite the opposite.

    on the other hand, I do believe people should be free to express themselves however they like. in online games with filters I turn them on, though my friends make fun of me. my experience is better without cursing. yet I'm not vain to assume my preference is everyone's.
     
    CROWley likes this.
  4. CROWley

    CROWley Inactive


    I really like this point. Sorry I didn't add an "Other" option on the poll. I was considering it but didn't know what to label it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2015
  5. Sykikal

    Sykikal Very mentally stable admin Staff Member

    I didn't mean that was the only reason it isn't allowed, just that it was a counter point to the video. I don't really see versatility as a benefit. I'd rather use a specific word instead of a vague word in almost all instances. Which means there isn't really much lost from a communication standpoint by banning it because there's always a less offensive word to get across the same point.

    The main reason I don't allow the "F" word is because of the societal implications of the word. I think most or at least a significant amount of people consider the word offensive and vulgar. I'd like to keep the site open to people ages 13-18. There are no ways I know of offhand built into the software to allow or prohibit certain words based on a user's preferences, other than maybe a spoiler tag but that seems too inconvenient.
     
  6. CROWley

    CROWley Inactive

    Even the video said it, what is there to be offended by. Let's wait for anybody who finds the word offensive to speak up and give good reasons for why they find it offensive. It's just a word and it's not considered racist so you can't claim it's derogatory to any specific person or persons.


    My mind always jumps to groups. Is there some way to make a group that doesn't have the censor that people can just request they be put into?
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2015
  7. Shadow

    Shadow ಠ_ಠ

    The "F" word is used to enhance a phrase or sentence and help express your attitude/feelings about something. Using the F word (or cursing in general) has also shown to help increase pain tolerance. If I said "I f***ing hate when so and so does this" it's helping me to express myself. You could argue that I could have used something like " I greatly dislike or loathe when so and so does this" but personally it would not feel the same, it would not give me any sort of stress relief that cursing does and it would not get my point across as strongly as I wanted to, not to mention people in real life never talk like that, it would feel so forced and fake.

    I can tell you based on experience, unless you're a very sheltered child (more so than I was) people are not going to be offended by the word. Years ago back in 7th and 8th grade, 5th graders were cursing and saying way worse than the F word. Adults have no clue what kids are saying these days and parents who grew up in the last 30+ years are the only ones to likely be offended by it.
     
    CROWley likes this.
  8. WasNotWhyNot

    WasNotWhyNot idiot visionary

    it's worth noting that not everyone relieves stress in the same way. not in meaning the validity of the word is denounced because of that, more that it truly is an option. it's a conflux of choices and status that leads to 'bad words' feeling special. in their general overuse, it's gone cold for me personally.

    their effectiveness and personality is irrefutable, but in the example of criticising a person it's not really the swearing that's going to stand out at the end of it. swearing is less than content and more like particles, denoting near exclusively negative feelings. and I do like negativity, so that's not my angle. I think swearing should be treated more especially and used in times where the negativity needs to be expressed. that's why I lean toward no swearing, because people use these pejorative words on personal context rather than societal. they're just not given proper respect and I don't like reading them all the time. that is still a pretty uptight opinion though I'll admit.
     
  9. Sykikal

    Sykikal Very mentally stable admin Staff Member

    We had a discussion similar to this years ago.

    I wrote about something similar a while ago. Some people tend to over use profanity. http://www.videogameinfo.net/forums/threads/rant-about-swear-words.2126/
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2014
  10. WasNotWhyNot

    WasNotWhyNot idiot visionary

    the other side I sort of hinted at is: people who have that traditional opinion of swear words are kind of stuck in the past. I'm stuck in the past in a lot of ways, there's nothing wrong with that, but it's true.
     
  11. CROWley

    CROWley Inactive

    His argument completely changed at the end. It's not about observing violence in those cases, it's about venting. Even in your own post, I only read a little of it. If used moderately let's people know how serious you are
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2015
  12. Shadow

    Shadow ಠ_ಠ

    I am in no way implying or saying that people should over use it but that people are not as offended by it as much as you may think they are. WasNotWhyNot's issue is he doesn't like it being over used but even on Xat when words were not censored we don't normally over use the words regardless. The only time I've seen profanity over used is in R rated movies where every other word is **** or mother****er and it's tacky and distasteful, while in real life I've not once seen people act like that even online. Even in YouTube videos people who curse a lot are doing it in humor and it is funny, it's not used in an over used way in that they're doing it just to do it. On the issue of censoring someones freedom of expression simply because you are tired of reading said word, I don't think it's a valid reason.

    http://scienceblogs.com/neurophilosophy/2009/07/13/swearing-increases-pain-tolerance/
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 26, 2014
  13. Sykikal

    Sykikal Very mentally stable admin Staff Member


    A lot of people in YouTube go overboard with it. That's just my opinion. Then again YouTube is a pretty popular site so I suppose it hasn't held them back that much. Profanity in general doesn't fit with the image I want for the site. It doesn't seem "family friendly" to me. Maybe I'll come off as a prude but I find it a bit offensive depending on the context. I'd rather just censor it than decide it on a case by case basis.

    I added a separate smiley code for the f-word so you can hover over it and see that it says. So at least you know which curse word is being used. I'm not really sure if there's a way to enable/disable a filter based on personal preferences but that was the closest thing I could find.

    Warning: Partially censored profanity will be visible if you hover over this: fuck
     
  14. WasNotWhyNot

    WasNotWhyNot idiot visionary

    ah, well, I wouldn't say it's a problem I have with it, just my described preference. like, my attitude shouldn't be used to judged others, right? I'm fine with swearing. freedom of expression is a caveat though. like, what if someone wanted to be allowed to spam or flame? in that instance I'd rather their freedom be squashed than my freedom to enjoy the website.

    that's an extreme parallel I know. swearing is normal and harmless in comparison, but the slope can still be seen as slippery. the reason I voted no wasn't a display of moral vindication, but a selfish wish. I think no swearing contributes to vgi's unique culture and I don't want to lose it.
     
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  15. CROWley

    CROWley Inactive

    "I don't like it therefore ban it". People are monkey's but they noticed if they said they didn't like stuff it would get banned. You're free to enjoy the site even with people cussing. So long as it's not every other word and over-done it doesn't really stand out. There's nothing unique about VGI banning cuss words. It's really just a small hub of gamers and people who want a place to hang out to come and hang out. Some moderator once called it "A place where a bunch of close knit friends come to hang out" or something to that degree.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2015
  16. Shadow

    Shadow ಠ_ಠ

    I don't see anything when I hover over it but I guess if that's your stance on it then there really is no point in voting or this thread. My point was, cursing is not as offensive as people tend to want to believe. The funny thing is though you have said before that people need a thicker skin, shouldn't the over sensitive or conservative people just deal with it?
     
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  17. Sykikal

    Sykikal Very mentally stable admin Staff Member

    You don't see it? I tried it on Internet Explorer, Firefox, and Google Chrome and they all show it. It's alt text. What shows up for people who have images disabled. What browser are you using?

    I don't really see it so much as blocking freedom of expression anymore than a movie director blocking certain language for his movie. "This is a PG rated movie, so I don't want the actors using profanity in it". They're free to do it in their personal life. This just isn't the appropriate venue for it.

    People will always have different opinions on what should or shouldn't be allowed. Some will be offended by anything, and others won't be offended by the worst posts imaginable. My goal is to find a balance that most people are happy with.

    There's always going to be someone who think I'm either being too strict or to lenient. I can't cater to that minority of people so they have to learn to adapt to the site's current rule set. People who think the rules are too strict need to adapt and change their behavior to fit within the site's current rules, and people who think the rules are too lax need to deal with the people they don't like who aren't breaking the rules.Which is why I said those people should get a thicker skin. Although the ignore feature is also an option to mute out particular users you don't like.

    I'm open to discussion, and the poll results influence me but it isn't the only factor. There have been changes as a result of this conversation. For example, the s word used to be blocked and it is currently allowed. The culture of the site can change over time as our primary user base grows up and I've accepted that. It isn't about me ignoring what the users want and just deciding only what I want, but it isn't about a complete democracy either. I take what the members say into consideration, and then decide what I think is best for the site.
     
  18. Shadow

    Shadow ಠ_ಠ

    Those PG movies are catering SPECIFICALLY to children and adults are free to watch. Adult movies have cursing in them. I have not seen a teenager/adult movie with no cursing because that's what adults and teens, even some children.

    Are you catering to children? If so we shouldn't post or talk about anything violent or sexual in video games, no discussion of GTA for example. The majority of people who play video games are in their 30s anyway so you're technically catering to the minority as far as the industry is concerned. I don't think adult gamers would like being censored like a child but that's my opinion. Are the majority of users on your forum 13-15? Maybe a thread/poll about if swear/curse words are offensive to you might be a bit better. I can understand trying to keep a mature and civil environment but we've not had an issue with excessive and over used curse words as far as I've been around.

    Oh also I'm using Chrome
     
  19. WasNotWhyNot

    WasNotWhyNot idiot visionary

    I never meant to imply swearing occludes me from enjoying vgi. it's just an aspect about the site that I find unique and also enjoy for personal reasons. in something like this both sides are correct, so I hoped I could give fair representation.

    I have to reaffirm that it was something unique. a great friend of mine was a longtime user here because of syk's attitude toward, well, so-called inappropriate behavior. it fostered an environment in which two kids from very overprotective families (nack and nooboftheworld) could have a place to fit in. I was going to say myself, though, that absolutely this is a minority in world and gaming culture. that's another reason why I enjoy it: such an attitude won't be found barely anywhere on the internet, but I've made no allusions that my stance was either sensible or better for the growth of the site. just that it has a specific merit.
     
  20. CROWley

    CROWley Inactive


    Why don't I believe that?



    I can't quite put my finger on it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2015

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